Liars: Abortion (Part Two)
October 29th 2008 20:17
I know that I have went over this topic before but still people insist that the bible doesn’t clearly say that abortion is murder. As Christians when we hear lies we are to stand up and speak the truth. It is what we are called to do. I just want to take a moment to illustrate my point yet again. These are verses from the bible:
Isaiah 49: 15-17
“Can a woman forget her nursing child, And not have compassion on the son of her womb? Surely they may forget, Yet I will not forget you. See, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands, Your walls are continually before Me. Your sons shall make haste; Your destroyers and those who laid you waste Shall go away from you.”
***Notice that this statement “son of her womb” does not say ‘glob of cells/tissues’ it does not say ‘parasite’ it does in fact call it human in the word ‘son’.
Jeremiah 20:17
“Because he did not kill me from the womb, That my mother might have been my grave”
***Notice that the term “kill me from the womb” was used… “kill” – to kill someone is to murder them, is it not?
Psalms 127:3
“Behold, children are a heritage from the LORD, The fruit of the womb is a reward.”
***Notice that pregnancy is a “reward from God” – When you take His reward and murder it, do you really think He considers it okay?
Now then, also THROUGHOUT the bible pregnancy is referred to as “with child” the unborn are called “children in the womb” If you murder a child, it is murder. Liars that try to misguide you are here on a mission as are we Christians. Our mission is to tell the truth and guide as many souls as we can to come to the Lord with good actions of moral value and righteousness, while theirs is to guide lost souls to hell.
“A false witness will not go unpunished, And he who speaks lies will not escape.” Proverbs 19:5
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Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by Justicia
A Word From The Wise
Celebwise
Comment by Lester Caudill
Round Politics
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by Damo
For the Sake of Argument
My Apologetics
Just word of advice.
You may want to delete Alt_ed's comments.
He is an attention seeking troll that stalks bloggers.
If you have any doubts then have a look at his posts.
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
Comment by Anonymous
Now, I believe in the bible and I stick to unwaveringly to it's principles in my day to day life (including, to prove my point, being a virgin until a few years ago on my wedding night in my late 20's, which not many people can say!). I believe that I would not have an abortion myself, even if I were a victim of rape nor if my health or life was at risk. I also would not kill someone in war, I consider myself a consciencious objector and I am prepared to go to jail for my beliefs. HOWEVER I do not presume to think that I am absolutely and unequivocally right either about the way I interpret the bible, that life begins at conception and is sacred from that moment on, nor do I assume that the way I live my life is the only righteous path and I do not presume to force my beliefs and measures on anyone else. I would not want laws against things I disagree with, such as abortion, because the moment I insist on the law of the land being guided by scripture and not by secular reasoning is the moment we open ourselves up to our own belief systems and right to do as we please not being protected... subject to the interpretation of the next person in office. I believe in the right for every man and woman to choose for themselves what is right and wrong for their own bodies. Some people don't believe that the bible is from God. I respect their right to think that and to make up their own mind about what is right and wrong, even if I disagree with it.
I also believe in the right to choose.... my right to choose NOT to have an abortion and I do not want someone to take that away from me. Someone only recently pointed that out to me and I had not thought of that before - choice cuts both ways.
I feel that abortion as a method of contraception is the worse of two evils (bringing an unwanted child into the world is the lesser evil most of the time), but I don't for a minute think that any woman who makes this kind of decision, takes the decision lightly. Who am I to presume her situation and condemn her?
Just playing devils advocate (literally) something also to think about, if God is all-powerful, is God murdering a baby when a woman miscarries? I don't think so. If you had faith in believing that these aborted babies are in a better place and you believed in the almighty power of God to intervene if he wanted to, perhaps it wouldn't bother you so much?
I think it is a valuable debate to have, perhaps the most important in the public arena, and I appreciate and agree with the "no" argument (as in, here is why a woman should choose not to have an abortion), it completely needs to continue... but I just hope it never gets to the point where Roe Vs. Wade is overturned as some people want, for the reasons I stated earlier.
I understand you won't agree with my perspective... and I apologise for causing offense with such a sensitive topic. I used to feel very strongly that abortion should be outlawed and as I got older I realized the world is all sorts of shades of gray, not as black and white as I once saw it to be... so I just think sometimes it is valuable to understand the middle ground. It also seems very stressful for you, worrying for other people's salvation - you can't do anything about it anyway!
My bottom line is: We need to protect other people's rights, even when... or perhaps ESPECIALLY when you don't believe in them, in order to protect your own rights in kind. I hope, even if you don't agree, that you understand where I am coming from.
Peace and blessings.
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
You sound very much like a Christian "moderate" to me. Being in favor of things that are wrong as long as you don't do them yourself, is a nice, moderate, luke warm position to take. If you've read the Bible, you know what God has to say about being luke warm, right? Nowhere in the Bible have I ever read that we are supposed to protect sinners and criminals or allow them to do wrong without speaking up against it.
There is NO right in the Bible or in the Constitution that permits the murder of unborn children. That was put into law by activist pro-abortion judges and should be overturned. It's man's law, not God's.
As for your ridiculous remark about God "murdering" babies that miscarry, it doesn't even merit a comment.
If you want to argue politics, like the war, feel free to come to my blog. I have to be more polite when I'm a guest on someone else's. But I'd be happy to tell you what I really think on my own blog. Maybe you'll even have the nerve to use your own name...
Comment by TBT
Good Morning!
S.L. ~ Thank you, we are commanded to speak the truth in the midst of a lie. These lies seem to be fooling many people into doing evil and the said thing is that if God is truly in your heart than you can not be fooled by lies. Because if there is even a doubt that something is wrong we are to turn from it and not make excuses as to why we deem an act to be a sin or not- it is not up to us, the law has been laid down already. It is by those standards that we are to live, not our own.
Justicia~ Thank you for your comment. I agree, it seems that usually the people claiming that a sin is okay and the bible never speaks of the acts in one way or another have never actually even read it to begin with. But that isn't the only sad thing... it is that Christians that have read it and do read it actually believe these lies despite knowing for themselves the truth.
Lester~ Thank you brother. Together Christians can spread the word of God in light and love.
Anonymous~ If you are referring to the word "abortion" no, it is not used. This is a term that reared its ugly head long after biblical times. This post simply illustrates that the bible refers over and over to the unborn as "children" ... people worthy of life which is something that the pro-abortion crowd keeps arguing. The argument is always the same: it is not really a baby, it isn't a person until it breathes, how can it be murder if it isn't alive or human.... etc. The bible clearly states that the unborn are children and that they are alive and that God put them there for a reason. So, it is pretty clear that if it is a child in God's eyes, He gave that child to you to protect, raise and love, and there is no question about it then to kill, mutilate and remove that child from existence is murder.
Alt-Ed~ I am deleting your comments here due to the language. This is a bible study for all people of all ages to come and read, learn and grow. I do not appreciate your wording. I also will not tolerate stalking behavior either or hateful remarks. You will be welcome here as long as you can be respectful. When the line is crossed your comments will be deleted.
Damo~ Thank you for the heads up. I appreciate your concern. I know that many will wish to fight me on this subject and I am ready to stand my ground. But this type of behavior is inexcusable. We are not "to cast our pearls before swine" so I will be watchful.
Thank you again, for all of your comments.
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by Truth B. Told
Hidden Eternal Treasures
The scipture you quoted is very true but this isn't my first post on this subject and so, I chose to show more scripture on the subject. Those that you mentioned I have used before.
As Christians we are NEVER to condone sin. And, what right do you speak of? The right to murder? Do you also play 'devil's advocate' when a mother drowns her babies in a bath tub, or when a husband shoots his children on a rampage? If not, why then? Because it is wrong to murder? The same applies to abortion. You see we all have the "right" to do as we please. It is called free will. One murder is not bigger or smaller than another. If you condone sin then you condone it for man's sake and to be liked by men instead of standing up for what God has deemed right and wrong to be loved by God.
You said, "I do not presume to force my beliefs and measures on anyone else." Again Christians do not worry about what man thinks only what God thinks and we follow Jesus daily. We are commanded by Jesus to go out into the world and teach what is right and what is wrong in the eyes of the Lord.
You might consider your mission here to be noble, and it may well be in the eyes of man, but Christians are to worry first about their mission from God to teach His laws. We are "to be in the world but not of this world" which means we are to live by God's standards and if man's conflict with His laws we are to choose a side. We can not serve two masters. We either serve God or serve man. There is no middle ground as the bible points out several times. You have chosen yours and I have chosen mine.
SL~Thank you for being respectful
Comment by Truth B. Told
Hidden Eternal Treasures
*The churches will have to deal with being judged for the teaching and preaching that is directly against the bible.
Comment by Anonymous
I also believe in the separation of church and state and tolerance and understanding when I do not agree with others.
For example, I think that homosexuality is wrong based on the bible. But I also believe their rights should be protected. Because it's NONE OF MY BUSINESS. Each will take care of his/her own salvation.
My point was that we need to protect other people's rights, even when... or perhaps ESPECIALLY when we don't agree with them, in order to protect your own rights (which some might see as kooky) in kind.
SL if you re-read my post you will see that there is no possible way, based on my lifestyle choices as a first point, you could label me as a 'moderate' nor is there any call for you to imply that God will 'vomit me out of his mouth' for being luke-warm... well might I say 'judge not, lest ye be judged'. You're not the only one who knows their scripture! It doesn't, however, mean we have to interpret it the same way.
Jesus was tolerant of many people who were intolerable according to scripture as it stood back then: the woman with the flow of blood should not have been in the crowd, the lepers should not have approached, he should not have spoken with the Samaritan woman at the well, and the prostitutes he dined with should have been stoned to death. I ponder on these examples deeply and use my god given conscience to reach my conclusions and beliefs. And these beliefs morph over time, as I get older, and hopefully more seasoned.
I understand my stance is confusing to you, but you need to understand that by whacking a label on my views to pigeonhole me and then going on to make assumptions on how God views me you are simply dismissing my argument as 'from a christian moderate' and not thinking about it's merit. Which is your prerogative and I understand the fear around being tolerant on this subject. It's not exactly a populous view in our community.
But I am proud of the fact that I have thought this through independently, prayed hard about it, and not gone along with everyone else for the sake of it. That's the easy way. I found my own middle ground and my conscience is fine, so don't worry for my salvation, and I promise in turn I won't worry about yours. Deal?
And can I help it if my parents christened me Anonymous? It was a toss up between that and Blanky Blankington... just plain mean!
Comment by Anonymous
Thanks for your clarification, it's made me see your point a little clearer.
Blanky Blankington
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Sorry Anonymous, but that's still a luke warm position you're hanging onto.
Comment by Truth B. Told
Hidden Eternal Treasures
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by Truth B. Told
Hidden Eternal Treasures
Comment by Lester Caudill
Round Politics
Comment by TBT
Comment by Anonymous
If you believe Jesus wasn't the fulfillment of the mosaic law and that it's not abolished then you can't just pick and choose out of what is holy or not holy from the law. There is a word for that. It starts with a hip and ends with an ocracy.
P.S. the biblical type of love is where you would die for a sinner... like Jesus did... even when they show no remorse.
Comment by TBT
For those of us that can read, and that have faith, the bible is very clear. As for the silly comment about sinning Anonymous, yes, we have all sinned. But when we became true Christians we STOPPED sinning and we were born again in Christ. When we repented of our sins we became clean from our past sins. Then we made a promise not to sin any more. So, true Christians that have repented and received Christ will not go to hell... hence they are saved.
When Jesus said that He came to fulfill His Father's laws and NOT get rid of them, I think that this is exactly what he meant as it is repeated to follow all of His Father's laws.
As for not casting the first stone… that is what Jesus was trying to point out. People were taking the punishment of the sins too carelessly. For instance the woman being stoned for adultery… death should only be a punishment for murder. Divorce should be a punishment for adultery, etc. To kill someone for a lesser crime then murder was preposterous. Hence, He spoke of mercy and righteous punishments suited to the crimes.